Women's colleges offer transformative experiences for students that are more important than ever. These institutions provide access to inclusive campus communities and academic excellence with a focus on developing women leaders. In this episode, we will counter common myths, highlight unique opportunities from STEM programs to powerful professional networks, and explain why these nurturing environments empower women to fully be themselves.
Guests: Chelsey Holley, Director of Admissions at Spelman College, Nichole Reynolds, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at Bryn Mawr College, Deanna Dixon, Dean of Admissions at Smith College, and Laura Stratton, the Director of Admissions at Scripps College.
Moderated by Eddie Pickett, Senior Associate Dean of Admissions and Director of Recruitment at Pomona College.
Eddie Pickett: Welcome new and old friends to the College Admissions Decoded Podcast, an occasional series in the National Association for College Admission Counseling or NACAC. NACAC is an association of more than 27,000 professionals at high schools, colleges, universities, and nonprofit organizations, as well as independent counselors who support and advise students and families through the college admission process. I'm your host, Eddie Pickett. My pronouns are he, him, and I'm a NACAC board member. And my day job, I'm the Senior Associate Dean of Admissions and director of Recruitment at Pomona College in Claremont, California. For this episode, I'm joined by four dynamic college admission professionals for discussion about the power of women's colleges. Unfortunately, some young women or female identifying high school students rule out this great option before they actually explore the offerings. So, we're here today to set the record straight for the nearly 30 women's colleges in the US. With me today are Nichole Reynolds, Dean of undergraduate admissions at Bryn Mawr College. Welcome, Nichole.
Nichole Reynolds: Thanks for having me. So, excited to be here.
Eddie Pickett: Next up we have Deanna Dixon, Dean of Admissions at Smith College. Welcome, Deanna.
Deanna Dixon: Glad to be here. Thanks for having all of us, Eddie.
Eddie Pickett: Third, we have Chelsea Holley, Director of Admissions at Spelman College. Welcome Chelsea.
Chelsea Holley: Thanks, Eddie. Very happy to be here.
Eddie Pickett: And last but not least, my neighbor, just north of me, literally taking a five-minute walk. Laura Stratton, the director of admissions at Scripps College. Welcome Laura.
Laura Stratton: Thanks for having us, Eddie.
Eddie Pickett: And thank you all for joining us today. We're really excited to have this conversation. As a former college counselor, I would always start young women's lists with a women's college because we want to start that process there. Instead of waiting until the end, we want to start it and say, "Hey, let's present this option." And so, I'm excited to have this conversation and to hear from the experts. You all sit in this space every day and so I'm excited to hear what you have to say. We're going to start off with the first question, and this is for everyone. What is the number one reason that you're a champion for women's colleges?
Nichole Reynolds: I can kick us off there. So, I would say outcomes, women's education produces measurable and powerful results. Let me give you just one concrete example. Female rising college freshmen who identify STEM as their area of interest are several times more likely to graduate with a STEM degree when they study it at a women's college. And that's because for hundreds of years. So Smith, since 1871, Spelman since 1881, Bryn Mawr since 1885, and Scripps since 1926, we've been calibrating everything we do on our campuses to support the success of our unique and talented student bodies. Did you know Eddie, that fewer than 2% of students in the US choose to attend a women's college?
Eddie Pickett: I learn something new every day. So I just learned something new and I'm sure I'm going to learn more.
Nichole Reynolds: Perfect. Perfect. So, by virtue of that statistic, it's a pretty bold and unconventional choice. But as alums, that 2% is also bold and unconventional. They're a community of firsts and pioneers and leaders and they claim entrepreneurial roles and positions of leadership across professions and at a statistically much higher rate than our female counterparts who graduate from co-ed institutions. Because of that, when they graduate, they enter into what is arguably the most powerful professional women's network in the world. And I think that's pretty powerful stuff.
Deanna Dixon: I'd actually like to offer something more personal and that is that I'm a Smith graduate. I don't want to speak for you Nichole, but I know Nichole also is a graduate of a women's college. And I think for me, being a champion really is very personal, I believe and have just experienced the transformation that women's colleges create for their students and alums, the network that Nichole mentioned, that is a real thing. I have stories of friends of mine who have relied on the Smith College network in particular when they needed help in an area when they lived in Chicago for example, and needed some assistance when they didn't know anybody. And then they were able to tap into that alum network that embraced them and brought them into the fold. I think women who graduate from women's colleges, they are entitled and feel like they're entitled to walk into any room, and that is part of that transformation, so that you're bringing your full self into everything that you do. And because I have experienced that and have observed that, that is my personal reason for being a champion for women's colleges.
Chelsea Holley: Nichole mentioned some of the academic and outcomes related outcomes that come from graduating from a women's college. I really want to focus on some of the personal benefits as well. My perspective is a bit different. I did go to a co-ed institution, and so I'm able to watch our students really find themselves within the first three months, six months that they're on our campuses. You see them become confident, you see them become sure of themselves, you see them really seeking out different passions. They're really dynamic and multifaceted students. And because of that, our students are able to, whether it's on our campus or at an internship or ultimately when they get a job, they again are bringing confidence to that space, personal growth. And we also hear that from their parents. I cannot tell you how many parents send their Spelmanite to us and within six months they come home and they say, "This is an entirely different young woman." And I really think there's something special about this space that allows women to lean into themselves and find out who they are.
Laura Stratton: So, I'm going to take a little bit of a different turn with it, and that is I'm a champion of women's colleges because of the community that we create not only for our students, but also for all the people who get to work at a women's college. And so, having been at Scripps for over 15 years and being a woman in a woman-dominated space, I've learned so much about leadership, and I've learned so much about how to model things and how leadership can look different for different types of people.
And having gone also to a co-educational school, I see that I get the benefits of being at a women's college and the folks who work there, the folks who come to speak to our students and speak to our community, our faculty that we're a community and anyone who buys into being a part of that community sees that benefit. And it's one thing that I have been surprised by and I think is one of the reasons that I've stayed so long, is that it's not just empowering for our students, but it's also empowering for all of us who get to go and work there every day.
Eddie Pickett: Now, I want to echo Chelsea's point as well. And so, just seeing the power of that. My younger sister went to Spelman, and she went in as a very shy, quiet, we used to call her old drifty, Elisa, I love you. I love you a lot, but that's your name. But she went in a very shy person, and she came home a year later, and she was on fire. I mean, that was a powerful thing for her. So thank you Chelsea, and to your colleagues at Spelman for making my sister who she is now. Just thinking about those different opportunities that I saw my sister have and some of my peers at Scripps because I went to Pitzer. Can we talk about what are the unique opportunities or experiences that women's colleges offer that might not be available at co-ed institutions?
Laura Stratton: One of the parts of the experience that I don't think students automatically think of when they come to our table at a college fair and they're getting information is how we can create nuanced and specific experiences for them that are going to augment their in-class experience. So, I do think the classroom dynamic is different. Often as we're talking to students, we talk about that it's great to be an active listener in the classroom. You don't have to talk first, you don't have to talk the longest or the loudest. And they can often identify that, especially if they're at a co-ed high school of having been in that environment. But it's outside of the classroom too. And when I think at Scripps some of the experiences that our students have is very openly talking about career path and thinking of how do they walk into their first job interview and leverage skills around communication and team building on their resume or in cover letters, how do they negotiate salary, which we know that women do less than and often less successfully than their male counterparts.
And just being very open and honest about those things, I think creates the space then that students can figure out what's right for them. And it doesn't mean that they have to aspire to the C-suite, and it doesn't mean that they have to aspire to any one thing. But the way that programming is created in the space, it is for them and Eddie, as you were saying, for your sister to be in that space where it was for her, it creates these opportunities I think for students to just be most fully themselves. And when I think of the women's college experience and what I hope the students have at the end of that, it is not that there's any one outcome, but it's that they really do have that experience to be most fully themselves.
Nichole Reynolds: And I'd love to add on to that, Laura, and extend your idea to the notion of faculty. So, a women's college is not just a niche choice for our students, but for the faculty who teach there. They are not just there to teach promising minds. You can do that at lots of colleges and universities, but they're there to be invested mentors and they uniquely are attuned to the hurdles that young women will face in their potential professions. And embedded in the experience at a women's college is training and coaching around that in the same way that they're getting coached around, right? Salary negotiation and things like that. So, I think the power of faculty on our campuses and the fact that they've chosen to be there in front of our specific student bodies is a real benefit on our campus.
Deanna Dixon: I couldn't agree more with what Laura and Nichole offered. It makes me think of a story that an alum told me a couple of years ago about her own journey to college. And it was that every campus that she visited, she was looking for the women's center, and so she would explore the women's center and learn about what the women's center could do for her as a young woman's student wherever she was. And then it hit her, why am I looking for a women's center? I can go to a whole college that's for me, right? That all of the resources are for me. So then she started looking at women's colleges, and that is what it boils down to.
I like to describe women's colleges as intentional communities, and the intention really is to have our students, we set the bar high and we ask our students to reach and exceed the bar that we set for them with the intention that everything is for them. They are at the center of everything that we do. And there's no other opportunity for women to be in that same experience like ever. And I'm saying that as a full-grown adult, but it just doesn't exist where you can benefit from how rich it is to be in a women's environment like that and that have all of the resources there for you.
Chelsea Holley: I think we can't say enough about resources and support services because there is something really special about knowing those are designed for our student population. During the pandemic, one of the support services that was most critical to our students at Spelman was our counseling center. And we were very intentional about having an approach in our counseling center that honored community space group therapy, one-on-one therapy that was grounded in intersectional thinking and really addressing the specific challenges of our community. And I don't know if that level of intention happens all the time at co-educational campuses because there is such a wide variety of students and issues that might be coming into those offices. Our students found refuge in that space, and I see our resources across the board really mirroring that same experience where they know it's a safe space and it's a space that is made for them.
Eddie Pickett: How has the conversation around equity and inclusion evolved at women's colleges over the last decade?
Chelsea Holley: I think women's colleges have led the pack and have been some of the first and recent years to really dive headfirst into issues of equity and inclusion. If you look at colleges that have populations of over 50% of students of color, you'll see a number of women's colleges dominating those lists. So, I think that is an important message that we have made an intention to enroll a diverse student population, and it doesn't just stop with racial and ethnicity differences. We also see gender being one of those elements that women's colleges work the first to take a stand on.
I know for Spelman, our choice to be more inclusive on gender in our admissions process was pretty controversial in our community. It was something that made the news and was highly talked about. This was eight years ago. If you think about when that decision was made, there's still so much work to do in understanding how gender plays a role in diversity on campus. We also see great strides in socioeconomic diversity. I know Deanna, you all are doing amazing work and making sure you're able to fund without student debt. So, there's so much going on at women's colleges where we're able to be a model for other campuses.
Laura Stratton: One of the things too, that I've noticed being at Scripps is once you empower students to have a voice, they will use it. And as we've seen, we've talked about this very interesting and powerful transition that often happens for students at women's colleges where they're growing in their own ideas about the world, their place in the world, their confidence. They are very comfortable and empowered to hold our feet to the fire. And often it is our students, right? It is not an apathetic place. A women's college is a place where students care deeply and we'll get questions often about what makes it so different and how is it really a women's college if you're in a consortium?
And one of the traits I've really noticed at Scripps is this incredible desire to make the world a better place. And that can take a lot of different forms, but once you open that gate for students who self-select into a women's college, they are going to make our campuses the front lines of figuring out how to have those conversations once they leave in their own families when they go home for the holidays, and in a lot of different spaces. And so, I do think you see powerful conversations and change happening around issues of equity and inclusion.
Deanna Dixon: I think we need to really remember why many women's colleges were founded in the beginning, and that was to provide an education for women who weren't able to obtain an education elsewhere because higher ed institutions were all male. So, we already have, as part of our mission, we are charged with being mindful of all equity and inclusion tenants because we're based on that for women. So, it's not a stretch for us to think about how we include others into our campuses and into our mission. So, I think being at the forefront of all kinds of DEI type work, it just made sense for us to be at the forefront. We were really doing it already.
Eddie Pickett: And thinking about, you've been doing this for decades and lots of decades for all of you actually, the last decade has been an interesting political place and an interesting social place. So, can you talk about how recent social and political movements and legal developments influence the conversation around women's colleges?
Nichole Reynolds: Sure. I think the fact is that those external forces have done a lot of the work for us in that the value of identity-based spaces is no longer something you need to belabor at a school visit, at a college fair with the college counseling community. They're already aware, right? The global connectivity of Gen Z and Gen Alpha means that they're not only aware, but they're engaging those political and cultural currents directly. So, I think it's worth taking a look at the landscape a young woman sees when she looks around in 2023. So socially, women's reproductive rights have been rolled back by 50 years in many parts of the country, and I hardly need to explain why a lack of bodily autonomy is pretty detrimental to women's progress and opportunity. Professionally, we are still underrepresented in many, many fields. Very notably STEM and public policy consider the fact that fully 70% of the workers on the front lines of the pandemic were women, but we make up only 25% of healthcare policy decision makers globally.
Eddie Pickett: Can you say that again?
Nichole Reynolds: I sure can. Professionally, we're still underrepresented in many fields, right? Fully 70% of the healthcare workers on the front lines we're women, but we represent only 25% of health policy decision makers globally, so underrepresented in policy fields and we're woefully underrepresented in top leadership roles too. So, despite the fact that we graduate, women graduate at higher rates than men do, only 9% of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are women. Financially, we know their gender wage gap is alive and well, just one example. Black women earn 60 cents for every dollar paid a non-Hispanic white man, and that's a disparity that's only budged three cents in 30 years. And then culturally, we've got male leadership as the norm out in society. Still stereotype threat means that many young women avoid spaces and opportunities at which they might otherwise excel. And we see that most notably in a lack of female persistence in STEM fields in particular, and in workspaces, subtle bias and overt sexual harassment still really negatively shapes and impacts a lot of female experience.
So, I could go on, but I think you get the picture, right? The point is that women's colleges are really the places devoted to cultivating women who know their worth. And as Deanna and others have mentioned, who really move with confidence in academic spaces and professional spaces and in social spaces. So, the really short answer to your question after all of those words is that the external conversations about women's positionality in the world in 2023 means that we're able to have deeper conversation with those who engage us because students understand why we matter to their development, to their future selves, and to the future more broadly.
Laura Stratton: I want to build off of that, and just anecdotally that 15 years ago when I was at a college fair for Scripps, students would often walk up and we would talk for a little bit and then throw out the women's college identity. And there was this right, this feeling of like ick. And if you could engage them long enough, you could start to peel the onion back. And now what I find from students at a wide variety of high schools and a wide variety of backgrounds and a wide variety of experiences, they're very comfortable with the idea of empowerment and are looking for that. And so, moving Deanna, as you said, beyond looking for a women's center or a women's centered organizations to a whole space, they're much more comfortable, frankly than often their parents are. And that I think is such a moment of seeing where generationally there have been these shifts and some of it is happening to our benefit and they're doing the work for us.
Deanna Dixon: I'm struck by, and I have been, oh, probably for the last few years, your question was framed in the last 10 years, right? And I'm thinking maybe back then, my fear was that students in the United States didn't understand the relevance of women's colleges at that time. And even though we have these situations now that it's like, okay, I think you get it now because now I think it is a little bit more obvious with how women and young women in the United States might have lost a lot of their freedoms, but there are women around the world who have not had freedoms. And 10 years ago, I was reminding people that it's not just about us in the United States. If you're passionate about women's education, that's a global thing.
And at the time, we were moving in a global direction, right? We have a pretty large population of international students on our campuses, and we wanted Smith students to really be global in their thinking. And so, you can't deny the relevance of women's colleges when we have women around the world that really can benefit from being educated in the United States. Their personal mission is to make a difference in their own communities. So, I think it's almost like the United States women have caught up now because of what the landscape has presented to us.
Chelsea Holley: Deanna, that is such a good point. As you all know, this time last year, I was on a recruitment trip in West Africa. I spent some time in Ghana, spent some time in Nigeria, and I remember the look on students' and parents' faces when I described that I was from a women's college, and it was this complete foreign concept to these young African women. And the parents would ask me, "Why would you need that? Why does that make sense?" And so again, from a western perspective, I'm here talking about all of the ways in the states that it's still incredibly important, and you see their eyes opening and thinking about all the ways that in their culture and in their country, it can have importance as well.
And by the end of the fair, I had a group of seven girls that would not leave my table. So, it was just in a really amazing moment to educate them of the possibilities and why this space is important. And they began to investigate things about themselves that they whispered to me always they whispered, and they said, "Yeah, here, women aren't supposed to really talk that loud. You always whisper as a sign of respect." And I'm like, "But I can't hear you, speak up. That's a good thing." So, it was a wonderful moment of cultural exchange through the lens of why women's colleges matter.
Eddie Pickett: So, a lot of that's rooted in stereotypes and misconceptions. And so, could each of you share an example of a common misconception or objections that students and families might have about attending a woman's college?
Chelsea Holley: Where do we start?
Deanna Dixon: I was just going to say, there are so many.
Laura Stratton: But one thing we did talk about as the four of us have been getting to know each other, is that the objections don't freak us out, that we talk about them and overcome them all the time. So, if a student has an objection, that's okay. We're comfortable with that. So, I'm going to let Deanna get us started, but we could make an entire podcast just about that.
Deanna Dixon: Yeah, that is so true. So true. I think my favorite objection is that women's colleges aren't the real world. And I always ask them back, "Name me one residential college that is the real world." It's not the real world. It prepares people for the real world, right? Colleges do. But the college experience is not the real world for women's colleges though or for women, the real world is being one of a few in a classroom experience. It is you're the only one that is in the corporate boardroom in the science lab. Any place that stifles a woman's voice is the real world for many women. And so, the place to build up the grit and the resilience and the stamina to face the phobias and isms that we have in the world is at a place where we affirm you and build you up, so that you are better prepared to navigate through the real world. Because anyone who has been pushed to the margin, if you're at a place where the margin doesn't limit you, then you're better equipped.
Nichole Reynolds: That's also my favorite question is it's not the real world. So I want to add on to what Deanna said to say that the data definitively tells us that it's not true that students don't perform well in the real world. We actually perform better than a lot of our female counterparts who graduate from co-ed institutions. And that argument is also based on the false logic that a student will not have any kind of a co-ed experience on our campuses. I want to be clear, there's no force field around our campuses that repels boys and men, right? We are all set in the co-ed world socially, and due to our consortium partners at Bryn Mawr, that means Haverford and Swarthmore and a little bit more distant UPenn.
It means that students will have an academically co-ed experience, in some cases co-curricularly socially for sure. But to put it in really basic terms, I'd say that any time that you spend building your network, while cultivating your intellectual interests, while cultivating your potential for impact, building your confidence in your leadership capacity, as Deanna mentioned, all of which we really intentionally do on our campuses is going to pay out in the real world. And it does our students graduate knowing they have something to say and contribute and then they do it. There is just no shrinking after a women's college experience.
Chelsea Holley: I think there's been lots of negative PR around female or all women centered spaces, and I think that's something that a lot of young women are fearful of when they step on our campuses. Maybe they had a poor experience in high school where they experienced mean girl culture or bullying or a hyper-competitive environment where they felt like they were being compared to other women. And to be clear, patriarchy is what creates that environment.
Eddie Pickett: It's alive and well, unfortunately.
Chelsea Holley: Indeed. So on our campuses, do not get me wrong, it is not absolutely perfect. I think some of those elements will exist on any campus no matter what the makeup is. But there is a lot of sisterhood community, there's a lot of encouraging the person next to you, a lot of motivation from seeing your peers succeed and from seeing so much ambition and boldness in who they are around you. And it actually has more of a positive impact on how our students perform and how they show up. And so, that's something that we really want to dispel. Women-centered spaces are not bad. If you're in a room with 20 women, that does not mean that it's going to be a catty experience. It could be an incredibly affirming experience, and that's what we try to promote on our campuses.
Laura Stratton: Well, and Chelsea, I think that also speaks to who chooses a women's college. And so we know there is this magic that happens once you're in our space, and it's the resources, it's the academic culture, it's the physical environment, but also the students who are going to end up in our first year class do on some level believe in empowering other women. And so, it is also then the company you keep. And I think for our students, it is this opportunity. We had our student body president spoke at our presidential inauguration and recently at our move-in day, and she told our first-year students, "You are used to being the smartest person in that space and in the room. And what that means is you've been in the wrong room and now you're in the right room." And she said that, and I was so moved because it is also then the students who also choose to join you in that women's college experience.
Eddie Pickett: In thinking about what Nichole said as well, and thinking about when I was a high school college counselor, students say there's no guys in those campuses and oftentimes actually are. And I can tell you from personal experience, I went to Pitzer, but my degree really should say Scripps because I took more than half of my classes at Scripps College. I kid you not a shout out and a very big thank you to Professor Tran, who is my film teacher, to Professor Nancy Macko, who is my digital media teacher. She also wrote my grad school recommendation. So Nancy, thank you. And to professor Ken Gonzales-Day, who's my photo teacher. And when I needed to get in the lab and I didn't have the money, he actually helped out a little bit and is like, Hey, I can figure out a way to get you an independent study as long as you actually do the work.
So, those three were literally more than half my classes with those three professors and being a guy and in those classes, and you're one of two to four for me. I'm used to it. I have four younger sisters, but for some other guys, they got a little uncomfortable. It's the fear of the unknowns, like, well, what's going to happen? You're going to go to class and you're going to learn, duh. But some people are scared of that. We're always scared of the unknown, which is sad, but very true. And so, as a non-product, but product of a woman's college, I love this space. I love this conversation, and as we wrap this conversation, I want to give each of you a final pitch. So, a 30 second to minutes elevator pitch on why a young woman should at least explore women's colleges and ultimately attend one.
Chelsea Holley: My final pitch would be that women's colleges are empowering and transformative, and to be empowered means that you do not compromise any piece of who you are. And being in an environment where you can do that is what creates that empowerment.
Nichole Reynolds: I don't think my pitch is 30 to 60 seconds. It's really just a couple of sentences here. Women walk around in the world and we have to navigate the invisible and visible cultural guardrails that tell us who and how to be in the world. If you are someone who's interested in having a four-year living and learning experience where you won't run up against preconceived notions about what pathway you should take, about how you should present yourself, about how you should hold yourself, about the space you should take up, then you might want to consider a women's college because we are spaces where you won't run up against notions about what you should do, who you should be based on your gender identity or any other facet of your identity. That's pretty powerful.
Deanna Dixon: My pitch would be if you are looking to truly find yourself, there is no better place than a women's college to do that. You are provided with many examples around you in the form of your peers, faculty, administration of strong women in leadership. You're provided with examples of different personality types that all are successful and that all can command a room whether you're a bit more introverted or quiet, or whether you are the person that doesn't stop talking. I think we embrace all of those personalities on our campus and we pave a way for you to succeed no matter what your temperament might be. So, it is absolutely the best place to discover yourself and prepare you for the next step.
Laura Stratton: So, I think that young women and high school girls in particular are at this moment in a really tricky spot. And we know this from the research that's coming out about a variety of challenges related to mental health and belonging and technology, learning loss, pressure, self-imposed and societally imposed pressure. And I see a women's college as a place where those things don't all magically go away, right? You do, our students still bring themselves to college, but it is a place of deep care, and I think it’s care about each other and it's care about the world around them and care about becoming a version of yourself that will propel to the next step.
Eddie Pickett: I think from my final words today, I actually want to uplift something that Deanna said that is a very true statement. And that statement was, any place that stifles a woman's voice is the real world. I'm going to let that sit with you. And I think oftentimes, we as guys want to have the final word and we need to step back. And so, I've never done this before, but I'm going to step back and I'm going to let somebody else close us out. So, instead of hearing my voice last, you're going to hear one of these bad women close us out.
Laura Stratton: I'm afraid that's all the time we have today. My thanks to Nichole, Deanna, Chelsea, and Eddie for an illuminating conversation. And thanks to you, my friends in our audience for joining us for this episode. College Admissions Decoded is a podcast from NACAC, the National Association for College Admission Counseling. It is produced by Phantom Center Media. Kojin Tashiro produced this episode. If you would like to learn more about NACAC's mission and the college admission process, visit our website at www.nacacnet.org. That's N-A-C-N-E-T.O-R-G. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and rate us on your favorite podcast app. And don't forget to subscribe. See you next time on College Admissions Decoded.
CITATION: National Association for College Admission Counseling. “Uniquely Powerful: Insights Into the Women’s College Experience
” NACAC College Admissions Decoded,
National Association for College Admissions Counseling, March 6, 2024.