At least 10% of students on college campuses have a learning difference. In this conversation, two college admissions professionals share what students should look for when researching a college to determine whether and how the institution will facilitate their success in higher education. They share the many support systems they can look for when they start college.
Guests: Marybeth Kravets, Past President of NACAC and Director of College Counseling at Wolcott College Prep in Chicago, Illinois; Kasey Urquidez, Vice President of Enrollment Management and Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of Arizona. Moderated by Eddie Pickett, Senior Associate Dean of Admissions and Director of Recruitment at Pomona College.
Eddie Pickett: Hello, and welcome to the College Admissions Decoded Podcast, an occasional series from the National Association for College Admission Counseling or NACAC. NACAC is an association of more than 26,000 professionals at high schools, colleges, universities, and nonprofit organizations, as well as independent counselors who support and advise students and families through the college admissions process. I'm your host, Eddie Pickett, and my pronouns are he/him and his. I'm a NACAC board member and a Senior Associate Dean of Admissions and the Director of Recruitment at Pomona College in Claremont, California.
Our topic today is learning differences. What got me thinking about this topic is that I was at a commencement recently and a student talked about neurodivergence at the school and how they were being pushed to the side, and it really got me thinking about, "Well, how do we focus on the students, do we focus on the students, and what is the process for college for these types of students?" I'm joined today by two NACAC members whose life work has been dedicated to supporting students who learn differently. They'll help us make the distinction about learning differences versus learning disabilities and unravel other nuances about students who learn differently. Our guests are Marybeth Kravets, former president of NACAC and Director of College Counseling at Wolcott College Prep in Chicago, Illinois. She's also the co-author of the K and W Guide to Colleges for Students With Learning Differences, published by Princeton Review and Random House, and now in its 15th edition. Welcome, Marybeth.
Marybeth Kravets:
Thank you. Welcome and I'm glad to be here.
Pickett: And next we have Kasey Urquidez, Vice President of Enrollment Management and Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of Arizona. Hello, Kasey.
Kasey Urquidez:
Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Pickett: Well, thank you both for joining us on the podcast today. Definitely a topic that's been in a lot of discussion recently. I think for me as a former college counselor, there are always three schools that I would introduce students to, and that was Landmark College, Curry College and University of Arizona because of the SALT Center. So I'm really excited to have Kasey here today, and we have a lot of ground to cover, so let's get started. I think I'm going to send the first question to Marybeth, and can you just give us a little context about the statistics of students with learning differences in high school and college?
Kravets: Well, the statistics say that approximately 10 to 15% of the students in high schools now are students who are identified as having learning differences, and then it goes to all the different kinds of learning differences. And I believe that at least 10% on college campuses are identified as students with learning differences. So in high school, if you're in a public high school, you could have an IEP, which is an individualized educational plan, or if not, you would have a 504 plan that says these are the accommodations that you're going to get, and the school really can be the one to say, "We think your student should be tested. We think that there may be a learning issue." That's in high school.
In college, the IEP dies when they leave high school and there are 504 plans, but the student's in charge of saying, "I think I have a learning disability," or, "I do have a learning difference and here are my documentation." In high school, it's a team. It's a special education department, parents case managers, students, teachers. In college, the student doesn't really have a team. They could have a learning specialist if they're in a college where the program is fabulous, as the SALT program at the University of Arizona. But in other places, colleges will just meet the mandated services that the federal government says I have to meet. In high school, we can modify the curriculum, we can give them a lot of accommodations that would not follow them into college. So there really is a big difference, and in college, it's really that the student is on their own and they have to be a self-advocate.
Pickett: Yeah. I want to echo something you said there as well, and so being the self-advocate is also about building your team, and that's what students sometimes don't get, but parents, this is no longer a part of your team, unfortunately, and once they go to college, you have to let the babies go. So I want to make sure we echo that point from Marybeth. One more question before we pull Kasey in is just what should students look for when researching a college?
Kravets: Right. That's a great question. I mean, first of all, they should have a list of priorities, and really at the top of that list should be, "What is the level of support that I'm going to need on a college campus and does that college that I'm looking at provide me with that support?" They also need to look for who is providing that support. Is it someone who is certified in learning disabilities or am I going just to a tutoring center or where there are peer tutors? They should also look for the graduation requirements from that college. In other words, I have a learning disability that impacts me in math or foreign language. Do I have to take multiple courses in math or foreign language when I graduate from that college? They really also should look for the way in which courses are taught. Is it mostly lecture in big lecture halls or are there smaller classes where they'll have a chance to interact with the teachers? So those are some of the things that they should be looking for.
Pickett: So jumping off of that point, I think you talked about support systems. One of the great ones that I've noticed as a former college counselor is the SALT Center University of Arizona. So Kasey, can you just tell us what is SALT, how it came about, and is it typical for college campus?
Urquidez: Sure, I'd be happy to. We're very proud of our SALT Center and look forward to sharing more about this throughout this conversation. But SALT, not everyone knows, but it stands for Strategic Alternative Learning Techniques, and so it's a center that really serves our students who are needing some of that extra support that might have some learning or attention challenges. And it started back in 1980. We had an individual working for this campus that really saw that there was some students that had some extra needs, and she, with her background thought, "What can we do to really support these students?" And so everything from the Capital Campaign onto getting the first cohort started, worked to create the SALT Center with really a specific mission to help students to be more engaged, to be self-aware and to grow throughout their time with that support that they might need to be much more successful in higher education.
And so that could include lots of things, but mainly focus on some individualized learning plans, learning strategies, how to learn with all the different types of modalities that we offer now and types of courses that we have, academic skills workshops, things with their peers, peer tutoring, peer counseling sessions, and also of course, learning specialists and other types of things like that. So again, we're really proud of our SALT Center and what we're able to provide to students just from its origins to where we are today. And I would say it's probably not that typical on most college campuses. We do hear similar to what you've heard about Landmark, Curry and the University of Arizona really being those campuses that have the most support for students that need that extra support for learning challenges or attention challenges.
Pickett: Sounds like you're offering a ton of support for these students. Can you tell us just a little difference between SALT and disability services?
Urquidez: Sure. Well, we have an amazing Disability Resource Center here on our campus as well, and that's the actual center that is providing those disability related accommodations for the University of Arizona. The SALT Center is the layer on top of that that really does all of those strategies in order to utilize those accommodations to the best of their ability. And so students will work with both on our campus if that's what they need. Some students just need that extra support through the SALT Center, but many will also work through our Disability Resource Center to have all of those specific accommodations. That might be ASL interpreting or looking at course material in different formats, for example. So a lot of students utilize both.
Pickett: I'm hearing all these different layers of support. So I'm going to pull Marybeth back in. Marybeth, can you talk about the different types of support for college students?
Kravets: Sure. Kasey mentioned some of them, but the mandated services are extra time on tests, a quiet place to take the test, professor's notes, the use of a computer or a calculator in exams, sometimes extended time on assignments. Those are the sort of the mandated services. But then a place like the University of Arizona SALT will go above and beyond that and they'll provide the executive functioning support that the students would not necessarily get through federally mandated. They're not going to get help with organization skills, time management, self-advocacy, helping them learn how to focus. Those are the kinds of things that they're going to get in a structured program like the SALT program that is a fee for service program.
Pickett: We've talked a lot about the pieces that are on the college campus, but the students actually have to get to the college campus. So let's talk a little bit about the process. I'm going to throw the first question here to Marybeth, and that's how does a college application process differ for an applicant with learning differences?
Kravets: Yeah, that's a great question. So most colleges are the colleges that meet the federal guidelines. And so when a student applies the college, they apply with a general application through Common App or through Coalition or through the individual school's application, and they just apply. And then when they decide where they're going to go to college, they will take their psychoeducational evaluation, their assessment, the most recent documentation, and take it to the disability office. That's the general that happens at college campuses.
However, there are then the schools like the University of Arizona SALT Program or University of Denver LEP program or Curry or Southern Illinois that have structured pullout programs, and that requires a second application. So there is an application that they will submit to the SALT program, to LEP, to Project ACHIEVE, and then also submit the general application to the college. Now, some schools also do this differently. At Arizona, and Kasey can correct me if I'm wrong, admissions makes a decision first, and then SALT will come in and do their part in admitting students. At Southern Illinois University, the Project ACHIEVE director can have a direct decision to make on admissions, and then admissions can do the admissions. So students really need to look at these colleges for do they have a structured pullout fee for service program? And then how does the application work? How many applications do I have to send in?
Pickett: Kasey, do you have anything to add to that, specifically about the University of Arizona?
Urquidez: Sure, I'll just mention that for the University of Arizona, students do apply for admission first. They are able to simultaneously put their application in for SALT, but SALT won't make decisions until our admissions team has made the decision for the university admission. We really want to make sure that students are going to be successful here from the broad standpoint, and then be able to utilize some of those services to really ensure their success. Students aren't required to disclose on their general application, but they are able to if they would like to through the personal statement. And then our team makes a decision and the SALT team then does a follow-up once the application for SALT is complete.
Pickett: Oh, you brought up a topic that came up in my office so often right there. And so you said, "They're able to disclose." My question that I got from parents all the time is, "To disclose or not to disclose?" So Kasey, what's your advice? And then Marybeth, what's your advice?
Urquidez: Well, for the University of Arizona, we really are making sure that we are the office of admission and we're looking for ways to admit a student versus deny a student. And so we want students to tell us their full story. So if a student has had learning challenges, maybe there's a blip in their transcript, there's something that just didn't go well one semester before they realize that they had some challenges, whatever it might be, we prefer that students disclose and share that information with us upfront so that we're able to have that as our part of our decision-making process. Because like I mentioned earlier, we do our review for general admission before the SALT Center has that chance to do that next level of review for services. So I encourage students to disclose for our particular institution.
Kravets: This to me is such an interesting question. First of all, if your transcript has on there that you're in a learning resource program or a learning resource center or taking a study skills course, it's already sort of like on the transcript. But let's say it's not. To me, who works at a high school with all college bound students, every one of my students are going to college all over the country, but we are a high school that only admits students who learn differently. So for my students, it would be sort of odd if they didn't disclose.
But in general, I believe that disclosure is something that's important. I mean, they didn't write a letter to their parents upon birth and say, "I would like to be born with a learning difference." They had it, they learned to deal with it, they've made fabulous strides, and I say disclose. And to me, colleges cannot deny a student based on this disclosure, and if they did get denied, they may think it's because of this, but then that's not a place they'd want to be. So I say disclose with pride and give an explanation of where you were, when it was diagnosed, where you are now, and how much you've learned.
Pickett: I would agree with that, actually. I would always tell students like, "Well, this is a part of your picture. You have to paint the picture for them so you want to give them the information and allow them to make the decision with all the information possible about who you are, how you've come through high school, and also it's an additional challenge, but you've overcome that hurdle, so why not be able to talk about that?" So that was my advice. I would get some blank stares sometimes and parents look at me like, "Are you crazy? Are you sure about this?" And I'm like, "I'm dead serious. You don't have to do this, but usually it's in your best interest." And then I get another blank stare. So you just kind of like, "Oh, hey, your choice." Again, everybody has choice in this process. We talked a little bit about the application, we're going to continue with that. Can you tell us what do colleges actually ask in the college application process for this subject?
Kravets: Well, if there's a separate application, they will ask very often, "What are your strengths? What is your learning challenge? When was it diagnosed? What are the accommodations that you're using in school? What are the accommodations you think you're going to need in college?" Talk about how you have all those things that you have learned, the advocacy, the different parts of being a successful student. And University of Arizona does have that separate application, and it does have some questions in there that students have to answer.
Urquidez: And on our general application, we have a place where students can tell us about programs that they're interested in on the main campus, and so oftentimes students will indicate SALT, and that helps SALT to know some outreach that they might want to do. But then again, they do that separate application and are able to answer the full compliment of questions that SALT has to make sure that they can be of best support.
Kravets: What the colleges can't do is ask, "Do you have a learning disability." So students have to have done their homework and done their due diligence on the colleges to know what kind of support they have. That's why the K and W Guide, the book that we write, is helpful because it separates out those colleges that have the structured programs versus those just meeting federal guidelines.
Pickett: The next one, tossing it back to you, Marybeth, is just what questions should students be asking of a college during this time?
Kravets: Well, if they can get to someone to ask these questions, they should first find out, "Is there a different process for me? I'm applying as a student with a learning difference. Is there a different process for me to apply?" That would be the first question. Secondly, to ask about the admissions course requirements. "I have a disability that impact my ability to learn a foreign language. I did not take foreign language. If foreign language is required to enter, do you allow substitutions in the application process?" I would ask about graduation requirements in general, "What are the core requirements that I have to take to graduate?" And then I would ask about the nature of the courses and the teachers and how they're teaching. And if it is a large university, how many smaller breakdown classes are there for the various courses? And then about the resources, "Where can I get those resources? How do I access them, and who do I send my documentation to?"
Pickett: Kasey, do you want to add to that?
Urquidez: I just wanted to mention that at the university, we have extended our SALT. We had one building, that's a beautiful building with all kinds of support within, but we recently opened our student success district, which has an annex of SALT in it so that there's multiple places where students are able to really get that support that they need, and that is right in the same part of campus where we have all of our other tutoring services and support services. And so students have that ability to interact with all of those different things at the same time, whether they might need a little bit of help with their resume or something else, they can do all of that together.
And I think one of the other important things I wanted to point out, just to follow-up on something Marybeth said is about class size and all those kinds of things, what's really important, and I think great for students to know, is that here you're a part of the SALT program and that's providing you those extra services and supports, but you're part of this main campus. You're a University of Arizona student first and foremost, you're in classes with everybody else and you have that maybe individualized support that you need, but it doesn't separate you from being a part of the bigger culture of being a wildcat on our campus.
Pickett: So Marybeth brought up the idea of documentation, and Kasey as a college official, can you tell us what the required documents are by the university?
Urquidez: Sure. For the accommodations that are the federally mandated accommodations and things through our Disability Resource Center, there is documentation that is needed to look into what exactly we need to provide and make sure that we're serving our students very well. Medical or other disability related documentation can be provided to our DRC, and then an access consultant would work with the student individually to be able to figure out what that looks like. For the SALT program, documentation is actually not required in order to apply for SALT. You can submit that information if you have a diagnosis, but you do not need to submit that in order to apply, and you would be able to fill out some supplemental information for the SALT Center to describe what kind of learning challenges you have and what kind of support you believe that you need in order to go through that application process.
Pickett: After the documentation period, the students submitted all these things, got ready, but then how are the professors notified about a student's learning challenges?
Urquidez: Sure. Well, all of the documentation that's provided to our disability resource center is what is used to do those types of notifications. So SALT doesn't actually do those notifications, but our DRC team does that and coordinates all of those types of accommodations that we chatted about a little earlier. So when the student requests a particular accommodation, the instructors receive information from DRC that has a link to the class information form and instruction form, and they complete that, and then they move forward with the process so that the student has the accommodations that are requested or required and approved.
Pickett: What happens if professors do not accommodate?
Urquidez: Yeah, that's a great question. We don't have too many issues with that. We're known as a campus with a lot of access and support, but since SALT doesn't do those accommodations, all of that goes through our Disability Resource Center, and then they work closely with that individual faculty, potentially a department head, to be able to ensure that those accommodations are met for the student. So really that access consultant through Disability Resource Center is really an advocate for the student in making sure that those accommodations are met as requested and or required.
Pickett: Thank you. And we're getting to our last two questions. I'm going to lob Marybeth a softball here, and just where can students get information about college support?
Kravets: There are several places to get the information. I would say always start with a college website. Go to their disability office website to find out about resources or like with University of Arizona, they have several places that students can get information, but the website starts. Secondly, if they have the ability to purchase the K and W Guide, we've described 350 colleges and their support. And thirdly, when they visit the college, they should go to the disability office and meet with the people and find out where it is and how students access it. And the other way is also to ask a representative from the college who represents their high school at the college for information. And if that person doesn't know it, they will give them someone to find out that information.
Pickett: Thank you for that. I think the last question we're going to go to, and I'm going to ask both of you to weigh in on this, we'll start with Kasey and then we'll pass it to Marybeth, is just what learning strategies are most important for college success?
Urquidez: That's a great question. I think that we all come out of high school or community college or whatever it may be still needing to really have that understanding of what's expected at the university level. And a lot of that deals with time management and just being able to organize your notes. And so I think those are two of the most important things, is really taking part in those workshops that help students to figure out those time management strategies. Sometimes it's hard to figure out just how to study and how to fit that into those times. And so the organizational piece is key as well.
Kravets: I would tag onto that and I would say, number one, learn how to say no, "No, I can't go to pizza because I have work to do. No, I can't go away for the weekend to a concert." Secondly, go to class. Don't sleep through class. Go attend class. Make sure you're there. Take your own notes. Get to know the professor. In a large lecture hall, I tell them, "Sit in the front row. You won't know there's 340 behind you. Say hi to the professor. Find out when their office hours are. Find a place on campus to do your studying. You may not be able to study in your own room, find your space."
And I say, "There are 24 hours in a day, eight hours for sleeping, eight hours for doing whatever you want and eight hours for school. So if you're not in class for those eight hours, find a place where you're going to be studying and because this is an important next step to your life after college." And the worst thing is the disability offices call November the crying month. Students come on campus, they don't even share their documentation with the disability office, and then all of a sudden in November, they're finding themselves in a deep hole. So I say to them, "Disclose it up front. Make the disability office and the career office the first two places you go on a college campus." And then all those other things that I've identified as leading to student success.
Pickett: As we're talking about the go to class and sitting in there, I'm sitting here in Claremont, California, like 350 people, what is that? The largest class here is nowhere near there. Probably not even over a hundred. I'm student in Claremont, and my largest class was 60 and my next largest class was 28. So large classes, what do you mean? But talking about all these different pieces, I did want to make sure we can actually highlight the SALT Center a little more and their resources and their opportunities. Kasey, can you tell us a little bit about just how to connect with the SALT Center?
Urquidez: Absolutely. As students are going through that high school process and looking at colleges and universities, we encourage you to connect with us here at the admissions office and through our SALT Center. So we offer a number of opportunities. When you're visiting campus, you can set up your Taste of SALT tour that would happen after the campus tour so that they can do that. If you can't get to us physically and you still want to learn a little bit, we have A Pinch of SALT that's offered virtually. Many of those opportunities are offered daily. So if you check out the main website for the University of Arizona Admissions Office, you'll be able to sign up for all of those things and make a full day experience on campus or virtually.
Pickett: Well, I want to thank you both for just such a lovely conversation today. What you guys can't see in the audience is that we've just been laughing this whole time. Lots of smiles, lots of good conversation, and particularly on this topic that's so important that sometimes pushed to the side. We want to make sure we can highlight that as an organization like NACAC, as college counselors, as admissions officers. Unfortunately, that's all the time that we have today. So I want to thank Kasey and Marybeth for joining us today, and I want to thank you in our audience for listening in as well.
College Admissions Decoded is a podcast from NACAC, the National Association for College Admission Counseling. It is produced by LWC Studios. Kojin Tashiro produced this episode. If you'd like to learn more about NACAC's guests, our organization, and the college admissions process, visit our website at nacacnet.org. That's nacacnet.org. Please leave a review and rate us on Apple Podcasts. See you next time on College Admissions Decoded.
CITATION: National Association for College Admission Counseling. “A Guide for Students with Learning Differences to Applying, Choosing, and Thriving in College.” NACAC College Admissions Decoded, National Association for College Admissions Counseling, January 19, 2023.